As President of Fuller Theological Seminary (with more than three decades of pastoral experience behind him), Mark Labberton is more than comfortable dwelling in uncertainty. For him, the space of the unknown is at least one way to access the kind of epiphany familiar to those of us on the creative path.  Mark is far more than just a big picture thinker and leader. He’s a prolific writer and orator with a unique gift for mining the sublime out of a secular idea. He is also someone who embodies the immersive and expansive mindset he brings to his teaching, writing and his wonderful podcast, Conversing with Mark Labberton.   Mark and Lorne first connected years ago as leaders of two important institutions of higher education in Pasadena. From the start, they were both fascinated by the connection between spirituality and creative expression. Lorne was a teacher and theater director curious about the relationship between inspiration (divine or otherwise) and creative flow. Mark was a pastor who has come to see himself as a curator of faith and experience. From there a friendship grew.  Their affinity has continued to expand and deepen. And once we decided to dedicate this season of Change Lab to explore the future of higher education, we seized the opportunity to speak with Mark, knowing all that we can learn from him.  As you’ll hear in this rich and full conversation, Mark understands something vitally important about leading with vulnerability. Perhaps even more resonant, however, is the power he’s found in what he exquisitely describes as a ‘theology of making.’ Please enjoy my conversation with Mark Labberton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices