Mark and Jesse discuss YNAB's recent price increase, and the psychology of customers around pricing. You can't make everyone happy, whether you justify the price increase by citing your own increased costs or by plainly stating your price increase without explanation or caveat. Jesse points out that some customers that have complained about the price increase have moved to competing software, which has copied (read: stolen) YNAB's look, feel, and functionality.   Jesse's primary lesson is this: it's important for a business owner to know what is and what isn't important. It seems rational to get worked up about copyright violation and intellectual property theft, but that path leads to headaches and large legal bills, if anything can be done at all. In this case, he chooses to ignore the competing software becasue, in the end, they are focused on different audiences. The audience that wants a YNAB clone for less money is a small segment of the market that is very price sensitive. On the other hand, YNAB focuses on the segment of the market that isn't doing anything to manage their money, to help them get their finances under control and deliver value.   As Mark points out, tweaking a product or service solely based on customer feedback can be a slippery slope. You think you are satisfying everyone by responding to various demands, but there's a danger that you end up building a product customized to a small segment of the market that's already bought into your business, and losing the appeal to the broader market that isn't a customer yet.   Mark Butler The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark and Jesse reminisce about the early days of YNAB, and a conversation over lunch in which Mark gave Jesse (what he thought was) sage advice -- to raise prices. Genius right? Jesse recounts how they raised prices in the earliest incarnations of YNAB's product, from spreadsheets to software to software-as-a-service. He also candidly breaks down a price increase that was poorly communicated to the YNAB team and to customers, and which tarnished the brand for a time.   Meanwhile, Mark kicks around the idea of lowering prices in his business!   Mark Butler The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

After a conversation about using ChatGPT to organize the weekly recipe calendar for the Mecham household, Mark and Jesse talk about the concept of letting go of control in a business. Mark posits an idea: you can have control or you can have growth, but not both. And Mark hates it! Jesse draws a distinction between control of the business -- that is, controlling the mission of the business and the goals employees are striving for -- and micromanagement, where the business owner retains control over not only what things get done, but how they get done. Micromanagement, they both agree, is bad for both the employee, manager, and the owner.   Mark Butler The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark and Jesse discuss the role of customer service in a business, and how the alignment of customer expecations with the business owner's strengths (or working genius, if you like) is crucial to customer satisfaction and avoiding burnout. Mark shares an example from his virtual CFO business, which was highly profitable but making him miserable as his promise of what he would deliver was out of alignment with the type of work he enjoyed and thrived on. Jesse recounts a months-long ordeal getting his new car repaired, which ended on a good note -- a shop manager that took accountability for the mistakes of the business and personally took steps to re-align his customer service with Jesse's expectations.   Mark Butler The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark and Jesse discuss Patrick Lencioni's The 6 Types of Working Genius, a book exploring various personality types and the kinds of work most suitable to each. It's more than a personality test however! Lencioni's model assesses people according to their genius, competency, and frustrations in six areas: Wonder: The natural gift of pondering the possibility of greater potential and opportunity in a given situationInvention: The natural gift of creating original and novel ideas and solutionsDiscernment: The natural gift of intuitively and instinctively evaluating ideas and situationsGalvanizing: The natural gift of rallying, inspiring and organizing others to take actionEnablement: The natural gift of providing encouragement and assistance for an idea or projectTenacity: The natural gift of pushing projects or tasks to completion to achieve results   Mark and Jesse share the results of their assessments -- their areas of genius and their areas of frustration -- and how they have seen these things manifest in problems in their own businesses. They also discuss how understanding your genius and frustrations (notice the word frustration is employed, not weakness) helps to focus your efforts where you will be most impactful, and ultimately build better, more effective teams.   The 6 Types of Working Genius Assessment: https://www.workinggenius.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ruyBhDuARIsANSZ3wriydJmSn6fd5XTmzV-EF7jo6HeJf5swq4XvPmOtW7fzv2REGhNlcAaAt9oEALw_wcB     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

In today's episode, Jesse discusses his net worth tracker, a basic spreadsheet in which he records the balances of his investments and other assets quarterly. For Jesse, net worth is the scorecard of personal finance -- it's a way of keeping track of what direction you are going with your money. However, scorecard is an impersonal way to describe net worth, perhaps even suggests that one's value is tied to net worth. This could not be further from the truth! There's a lot more to a person than their net worth, but net worth does tell an important story about a person's money, and money is a vital part of a person, even if it's not their whole self.   As Mark has observed during his time coaching people to manage their money, people that routinely spend beyond their means -- that is, accrue negative net worth -- have allowed their desire for consumption to exceed their ability to consume. Their net worth represents a person who is out of touch with their tradeoffs. As Mark has mentioend in previous episodes, YNAB is all about making your tradeoffs crystal clear, and learning to love the choices you make to bring your money in alignment with your priorities. In short, learning to love your spending.   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

In today's episode, Mark and Jesse discuss money as a concept, why it exists, and how trade (using money) has created tremendous value for humans throughout history. On the YNAB Podcast, Jesse has spoken about money being far more than a tool, however, and really an extension of one's self -- one's energies and desires. Mark and Jesse then attempt to connect the dots to our modern monetary system, where debt and inflation loom large. What exactly is it about money is essential to human flourishing?   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark kicks off today's episode with a handful of words, hoping to weave them into a broader discussion: vision, goal, strategy, plan, and tactics. Mark and Jesse discuss how many small business owners look for tactics first, various tasks focused on operations: posting on social media, starting a YouTube channel, building an email list. These may or may not be worthwhile activities -- you really need a strategy to understand the big picture of where the business is going (or needs to go), and then select the activities that will get you there. But even then, strategy is hollow, Mark argues, unless there's a why behind what you do. Unless the company has a clearly defined core identity, it will struggle to adopt a good strategy.   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

In today's episdoe, Mark and Jesse discuss the importance of developing good systems, not just in business but in life! Mark shares a recent experience in which his wife left for a few days on a retreat, leaving Mark to handle her usual duties. Mark was faced with a lack of systems in day to day tasks, and enough friction to sit her down after the retreat and have a talk about family systems. Kate agreed, and, within a few weeks, became a systems expert, looking for every avenue she could find to create better processes.   Good systems aren't just for increasing business profit, they're for improving quality of life, relationships, and family harmony too!   The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt and Jeff Cox https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement-dp-0884271951/dp/0884271951/ref=dp_ob_title_bk     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark and Jesse ponder the question -- what do you do when growth slows and the business plateaus? Mark recalls a story about a successful businessperson who failed at several ventures before striking gold, and notes that the "gold" business was never hard. It grew a lot early on, and continued to grow steadily from there. He juxtaposes this result with some of his clients who spend hundreds or even thousands of hours working on a business, yet never really take off. There were signs of sucess early on in the good business, and likewise there were not signs of success in the failed ventures. Looking for signs of success is a good indicator of whether a business has legs or not. If you don't see any, it's a good indicator that your time is spent elsewhere!   Antifragile by Nassim Taleb https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto-ebook/dp/B0083DJWGO/ref=sr_1_1?crid=JMRX5RI5RNZ8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.C3e4IagEiQHRzgC0W8S0KkU1s2tYPbhDWivIreUIOtwe2xEXBRSw7sYgY8vGAZxpOF13z-5F3MCQJ00OZnI2iuM5RFHBnnqqX5yeUs348hp-T297HGOx2e0-cQ-XPjqTBF2D8WYJx5Kt0LCnHhsFfmbdwGDgxb3pwniTQYHi71ahb0q4CkhWvUHmByV0dJqUkoIHy2PEFt18GVXgLjePclPH4zK4uOKDXX14x9cdoAc.MlGqTaeOx35qrIkulkswcuGJuF4GOAXfSoFOGSpA4z8&dib_tag=se&keywords=antifragile+by+nassim+taleb&qid=1710465424&sprefix=antifragile%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-1     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

People have been hemming and hawing over the value proposition of college for years now, and in 2024, the value that a bachelor's degree offers is more questionable than ever. Mark and Jesse, both with teenagers staring down the barrel of college (or not) in the next few years, share their thoughts on the subject. As Jesse argues, the purpose of education is "to learn how to do something, when you don't know how to do something." As Mark points out, the resources for self-education are more prolific than they've ever been, meanwhile critical thinking in school appears to be as low as ever.   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

We usually talk about stress as something you need to reduce, or recover from. But there are different types of stress -- good stressors and bad stressors -- and sometimes stress drives us to accomplish things and innovate when we otherwise wouldn't. To that end, Mark and Jesse discuss Morgan Housel's book Same As Ever: A Guide to What Never Changes, in which Housel outlines the way stressors and risk taking drives us to grow achieve new things. Mark also shares a recent story about how the stress of a bookkeeping sprint at work provided the spark for him to write new software to automate a key process in his business, and save a lot of time as a result.   Other books mentioned in this episode: Endurance by Alfred Lansing The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Jesse defends the New Years resolution, and offers up of his own resolutions for the year, namely being kind. Mark resolves to try really hard, and be a better friend.   Harvard study on men's happiness (started in 1938!): https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-secret-to-happiness-heres-some-advice-from-the-longest-running-study-on-happiness-2017100512543   Musical interlude courtesy of Kevin MacLeod: "Investigations" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark shares a trend he has become aware of in his business: his highest revenue clients are also his least time-consuming clients, and thus his most profitable clients. On balance, the clients who pay the least under his sliding scale fee structure end up taking the most time to process. This discussion begs the question -- when do you fire a client?   Jesse hashes out some ideas for a new fee structure so that Mark can retain higher-touch clients while incentivizing them to comply with the best practices that make them easier to process. They discuss the importance of focusing on the client's emotional state and how changing their behaviors to comply with Mark's system (such as opening accounts at banks that are easy to query for data, and minimizing the total number of accounts) can bring them value by reducing stress and increasing insight into the trajectory of the business.   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark shares a recent conversation with a client fixated on "diversifying" her business, which to her meant expanding her coaching services from 1-on-1 to group coaching. Diversification is one of those concepts that sounds wise (of course you should diversify!) and is a bedrock concept of investing. However, as Jesse points out, what most people think of as diversifying is really just expanding -- expanding product and service offerings, introducing new price points. The expansion still serves the same market. True diversification is decoupled entirely from the product or service, like using excess earnings to buy Treasury bills. The value of T-bills is independent from the performance of the business.   There is nothing wrong with expansion! It's natural as busineses grow and accumulate more institutional knowledge to seek out new opportunities to leverage that knowledge. But it's not diversification. That prompts Mark and Jesse to ask the question, why? Why do you want to diversify? What's the thought behind the thought? The answer can reveal the true nature of the problem -- maybe the business owner is worried about some risk exposure in the business and is trying to sidestep solving that problem (or perceiving the problem to be bigger than it really is), or perhaps the owner is simply bored and looking for a new problem to solve.   Whatever the answer, before you take steps to diversify your business, understand the why behind the motivation so you don't end up merely distracting yourself from the core business.     Acquired Podcast on Costco: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/costco     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Jesse shares a conversation he had with the YNAB executive team about spending (and giving) with joy, and Mark relates how many business owners struggle with this problem. Mark also shares a recent talk with a client agonizing over an upcoming vacation, which he believes will require him to make poor financial decisions. As Mark has coached him through the process of planning for the vacation and saving cash beforehand, he has been able to navigate through his all or nothing feelings -- the idea that you either enjoy life or be financially responsible (at the expense of enjoyment). There is a middle way!   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark and Jesse actually read the book (almost)! After completing most of the book recommended by a listener, 10x Is Easier Than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy, Mark and Jesse share their thoughts on organizing your business and your life to harness your "unique ability."    Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

A listener requested Mark and Jesse comment on the book 10x Is Easier Than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy -- and they happily oblige! Except... they haven't read the book. Yet. Nevertheless the title is thought provoking, and they debate the merits of growing a business slowly vs growing quickly, as well as the difference between doing it as a startup vs a mature business. Jesse shares his experience 10x'ing YNAB over the years, and how the challenges of the business scaled with his own vision and expectations for the company.     Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark and Jesse share a snippet of a long conversation about the nature of opportunity cost in budgeting. They broadly divide people into two different personality types: the accumulators who diligently follow the rules of budgeting and amass cash, and the spenders who focus purely on what that cash can buy them -- experiences, memories, mementos, etc.   Both camps face a hard challenge in budgeting. The accumulators may have a lot of cash, but at what cost to their relationships? What opportunities did they miss or forego to continue accumulating wealth? On the other hand, the spenders face a very concrete cost, that is, the money that they spent to acquire the things they wanted. Perhaps they lack financial stability, or safety, as a result of their spending. Either way, the hard work in budgeting really boils down to understanding what cost you bear in your spending decisions. The above examples are the extremes of a spectrum, but wherever you fall on the line, there is a cost to your current behavior, and understanding that cost -- and aligning that cost with your values and priorities in life -- is the key skill to a fruitful financial life.   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com

Mark explains his unique system for managing his day to day tasks after years of struggling with ADHD. For Mark, it's all about managing his energy and honoring his mindset in the current moment. If the "dirt pile" calls (his affectionate name for an ongoing earthmoving project in his backyard), then that's what he does, whether or not it's the "best" or most important use of his time in the moment. Over the years, Mark has learned that allowing himself space to indulge in physical tasks often has the benefit of settling his mind and, therefore, putting him in a good headspace to tackle bigger, more stressful business challenges. For Mark, productvitiy follows his headspace.   Jesse, on the other hand, has a very different style for getting things done. Jesse is a man of systems, and he's also a man with a long to-do list. He mentions how in the past he has been called out for letting tasks slip or needing reminders to follow up on things. So for Jesse the priority is making sure that tasks don't live in his head, but are organized in a good system. He likes David Allen's Getting Things Done (GTD) productivity system, which asks a person to first organize and sort through their list of tasks before tackling them. With a good categorization of tasks in place, it becomes easier to execute tasks at the time and place when you can do them, rather than relying on your mind's own reminder system which often reminds you when you can't do anything about the task! Jesse adds a weekly review to his process, to make sure he's working on things that matter -- in business and personal life -- and not avoiding challenging tasks by filing his day with low-level admin work.   The takeaway? People can get things done with very different approaches. One key to figuring out what will work for you is to recognize and honor who you are. As Mark's mentor says, you can't will yourself to be the kind of person who systematically categorizes and organizes tasks if that's who you are by nature. Once you accept that, then you can find the system that works for you.   Mark Butler, Virtual CFO The Money School: https://moneyschool.works https://markbutler.com https://letsdothebooks.com   YNAB https://www.youneedabudget.com