The Boy Krazy story is one of the most interesting — and complicated! — in the SAW history. The American girl group was put together through auditions in New York, going through a few line-up changes before the final five-piece, Johnna, Josselyne, Kimberly, Renee and Ruth Ann, signed a deal with PWL Records and flew to London to start recording with Stock Aitken Waterman. Kimberly and Josselyne join us to reminisce about that process and how debut single "That's What Love Can Do" came together. Released in mid-1991 in the UK, it unfortunately didn't connect with the British public, but over a year later, it started picking up steam in the US when a Denver, Colorado radio station put it on high rotation. By 1993, it became one of SAW's biggest hits on the Billboard Hot 100. Kimberly and Josselyne talk us through the highs and lows of that process. And thanks to Mario at Cheer Up (@cheeruppopparty), we're also able to share some of an interview with Johnna, who performed lead vocals on "That's What Love Can Do". Great song, great story!Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

It had to happen at some point. In May 1991, the Stock Aitken Waterman era ended when Matt Aitken walked away from his role as one third of the songwriting and production trio. In this episode, he explains what prompted his decision and we explore the changing nature of PWL at the time, which was a contributing factor in the split. Mike Stock also weighs in on Matt's departure and reveals whether he blames his musical partner for leaving. In terms of the music, we look at one of the most polarising singles in the SAW catalogue — and one which was among the last things Matt worked on. The latest Neighbours stars to come to the Hit Factory, Gayle and Gillian Blakeney (aka The Twins) were hoping to follow other SAW stars up the chart, but "All Mixed Up" was a commercial disappointment. It also divides fans like almost no other track. We follow the sisters' story from their early appearances on Australian TV to their deal with Mushroom Records and discuss why their SAW experience wasn't so great and why their single provokes such strong reactions. Plus, we take a quick look at the 1991 remix of "Roadblock", which featured in-demand rapper Einstein.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

The fourth in arguably the best singles run in pop music history was also a first for Stock Aitken Waterman, as external mix team DNA took care of the 7" remix of "Shocked" by Kylie Minogue, Neal Slateford from DNA tells us how the unprecedented remix came about following the runaway success of his and production partner Nick Batt's reinvention of Suzanne Vega's "Tom's Diner". A key component of the "Shocked" remix was the rap by Jazzi P, who also joins us to talk about the triumphs and trials she faced as a female hip-hop artist and how her contribution to the Kylie track came about. We also hear from the song's writers and producers Mike Stock and Matt Aitken, engineer Pete Day and PWL mix team Phil Harding & Ian Curnow about their involvement with "Shocked". Returning guests David Thomas and David Hogan talk us through the styling and music video for the single — and we sum up the importance of the Rhythm Of Love era in Kylie's career.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

She was our very first interviewee back in Episode 1 — and we finally reach the conclusion of Hazell Dean's Stock Aitken Waterman journey with her version of "Better Off Without You", which was released in 1991. The Queen of Hi-NRG joins us once again to discuss recording a song previously cut by Lonnie Gordon and her thoughts about the SAW sound struggling in the early '90s. Girl group Delage were also finding it hard to land a hit with original SAW tune "Running Back For More" missing the mark. Karina and Emma from the group return to chat about the track and Delage's metamorphosis into Eden once they left the Hit Factory. Pat Sharp and Mick Brown also pop in to talk about their 1991 charity cover, "Gimme Some", and we hear from Jason Donovan, Mike Stock and Sharon McPhilemy about "R.S.V.P." — the song that gave Jason's sound and image a makeover. We also look at his first foray into musical theatre and the ramifications of that on his working relationship with SAW.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

While "What Do I Have To Do" by Kylie Minogue stands on its own two feet as a song, the impact of the single was increased greatly due to the striking imagery on display on the single cover and in the music video. Celebrity stylist David Thomas takes us right back to the early years of his career and tells the story of how he was hired to style the video. His desire to take Kylie into a much more fashionable direction was something she was right on board with and their collaboration produced some of the most iconic visual images of her career. Video director David Hogan, who also joins us on the podcast, delivered an edgy, stylish, exciting music video that remains a fan favourite — and he recalls how it came together and some of the challenges posed by particular scenes. Responsible for the phrase "SexKylie" being coined, the video for "What Do I Have To Do" was a huge step in Kylie's career that further proved how in control of her image she now was. Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

In 1991, it was another bold step forward for Kylie Minogue, and in the decades since, "What Do I Have To Do" has cemented its place among fans' all-time favourites from her extensive back catalogue. But the third single from Rhythm Of Love didn't come together easily, with a lengthy period of time spent mixing the club-influenced track — and remixing it. Songwriters and producers Mike Stock and Matt Aitken, mixers Phil Harding and Ian Curnow, and engineer Peter Day all join us to discuss the evolution of the song and the inspirations and thought processes behind the different versions. Backing vocalists Miriam Stockley and Mae McKenna also return to the podcast to reveal how Kylie threw the rulebook out the window when it came to recording the BVs for "What Do I Have To Do". Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

You can have the best single in the world, but there's little chance of it being a hit if no one hears it. That's where pluggers come in — taking songs to radio and convincing programmers to playlist them. In 1987, Ron McCreight and his business partner, Robert Lemon, joined forces with PWL's Pete Waterman and David Howells in a plugging company that became known as Sharp End. In this special episode, Ron talks about how the music industry power players teamed up and the role Sharp End had in not only taking Stock Aitken Waterman's music to radio and TV but also handling publicity and promotion for many of the artists to work at the Hit Factory, including Kylie Minogue, Jason Donovan, Sinitta, Sonia, Hazell Dean, Mandy Smith, The Reynolds Girls, Big Fun, Boy Krazy and more.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

Check out previews of two of our most popular bonus track-by-track episodes. Gavin and Matt discuss Kylie, the debut album by Kylie Minogue, and, with special guest Barry Stone, talk about the first SAW-produced album by Dead Or Alive, Youthquake. As well as giving our thoughts on every song, we count down listeners' favourite tracks. If you enjoy these sneak peeks, you can subscribe to hear the full bonus episodes and all the other extra content at chartbeats.com.au/subscribe. Meanwhile, existing subscribers can now listen to the bonus track-by-track episode for If I Have To Stand Alone by Lonnie Gordon, which has been added to the bonus content.Thanks to everyone for listening and supporting the podcast — see you in 2024 for more of A Journey Through Stock Aitken Waterman.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

What a tumultuous year 1990 had been for the Hit Factory — and the final four singles produced by Stock Aitken Waterman that year certainly highlight that. What should have been Lonnie Gordon's second SAW-produced single, "If I Have To Stand Alone", came out as her third, but despite being in the same vein as top 5 hit "Happenin' All Over Again", it under-performed on the UK chart and the If I Have To Stand Alone album wasn't even released there at the time. Lonnie joins us for one final time to discuss the disappointment she faced as a result and the US dance hits she recorded with Black Box in the following years. New girl group Delage was launched in December 1990 with a remake of disco classic "Rock The Boat" — and Karina and Emma from the group reveal how the project came about. Meanwhile, one final single was belatedly released from Donna Summer's Another Place And Time album. Mike Stock tells us about the lyrical change Donna requested for "Breakaway" and the late singer's husband and manager, Bruce Sudano, talks about the song's success in South America and why Donna ultimately decided not to return to PWL. And we take a look at "Send A Prayer (To Heaven)" by Errol Brown — an often-forgotten Christmas song by the late former singer of Hot Chocolate.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

After the big creative risk that was previous single and video "Better The Devil You Know", Kylie Minogue and Stock Aitken Waterman went for something more playful with follow-up "Step Back In Time". With its fun lyrical nod to '70s disco music and a video dripping in retro style, the song was pure pop joy — and another big hit at a time when the Hit Factory sorely needed one. Mike Stock and Matt Aitken recall pulling the lyrics together for the nostalgic tune, while Phil Harding and Ian Curnow provide insight into the mixing stage, which was a crucial part of the process in delivering a single that satisfied Kylie's desire to be relevant in clubs. Phil and Ian also discuss the track they wrote with Kylie in 1990, "I Am The One For You", as part of PWL's efforts to accommodate her eagerness to develop her songwriting skills. Over in the US, Kylie also wrote with Michael Jay, who returns to the podcast to talk about Rhythm Of Love track "The World Still Turns", while former PWL engineer Peter Day also shares memories of working on the album, in particular the track "Always Find The Time". And on the visual side of things, Nick Egan details how he came to work with Kylie on both the "Step Back In Time" video and the cover for Rhythm Of Love. Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

Although she had been signed to PWL in the UK for a while and scored a couple of hits with remakes of "Don't Make Me Over" and "Walk On By", Sybil went into the studio with Stock Aitken Waterman in 1990 to record soulful ballad "Make It Easy On Me". The American singer/songwriter joins us to discuss starting out with US label Next Plateau in 1986, her string of club hits that caught the attention of PWL, those Bacharach & David covers with Tony King's pivotal remix work and what it was like working with SAW themselves. Earlier in the episode, Matt Aitken helps us unpack "Wow Wow Na Na" by Grand Plaz and "Ole Ole Ole" by LA Mood — two SAW-produced dance tracks that were released anonymously. And as we reach Jason Donovan's final single from Between The Lines, "I'm Doin' Fine", we hear from him and his tour backing singer Dannielle Gaha about life — and love! — on the road.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

Although they'd achieved some hits with ballads that they had produced, Stock Aitken Waterman were better known for their uptempo pop/dance tracks, but in mid-1990, four ballads in a row emerged from the Hit Factory. Three of those were the latest releases in the jukebox era series of remakes, with Big Fun ("Hey There Lonely Girl"), Sonia ("End Of The World") and Jason Donovan ("Rhythm Of The Rain") all reinterpreting golden oldies. In the cases of those first two artists, it would be their final singles with SAW — and we discuss what became of both Big Fun and Sonia after they parted ways with PWL. Also this episode, Lonnie Gordon's long-awaited follow-up to "Happenin' All Over Again" finally hit stores, but it was a complete change in style from the song that had taken her into the UK top 5. Mike Stock, Julian Gingell and Lonnie herself talk about the situation involving soulful ballad "Beyond Your Wildest Dreams" being chosen over clubbier tracks "How Could He Do This To Me" and "If I Have To Stand Alone".Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

When they came to work with Stock Aitken Waterman, pop act Yell! had one top 10 hit under their belt already — a remake of Dan Hartman's "Instant Replay". Signed to Simon Cowell's Fanfare label, the duo comprised of Daniel James and Paul Varney recorded their follow-up, "One Thing Leads To Another", with SAW, but it was not the success anyone hoped it would be, despite being a fresh new sound from the Hit Factory and the guys both being talented singers. Paul joins us to discuss his start in the entertainment industry and Yell!'s short-lived career, while we explore the external factors that impacted their success, including record company wrangling and negative press that took a particularly cruel tone. As it would turn out, not even Jason Donovan was able to live up to his previous successes in mid-1990 as his latest single, "Another Night", became his first to miss the top 10. Jason talks about the reaction to that chart shock and why going out on the road later in the year would prove essential to his longevity. Mike Stock, Matt Aitken, Peter Day and David Howells also share their thoughts on the Between The Lines era of Jason's career. Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

They'd been on the verge of breaking through for a couple of years, and sisters Romi & Jazz had their hopes up when their record label paired them with Stock Aitken Waterman for their latest single in 1990. The siblings join us to share their musical journey — from their first steps into the industry with a bhangra meets hi-NRG remake of The Four Tops' "Reach Out", which was co-produced by former SAW associate Pete Ware, to their two initial singles with Chrysalis Records, "People In The House" and "Love Crime". Romi and Jazz talk about their aim of breaking down barriers with their fusion sound and rewriting the rule book for Asian women, despite some resistance from men in their culture to them even being onstage in the first place. Their collaboration with SAW, "One Love One World", was a club-influenced, socially conscious track born out of Romi and Jazz talking to Mike Stock and Matt Aitken about the struggles they'd faced as young Indian women. Another song with a more serious theme than you'd expect from the Hit Factory was "You've Got A Friend", a collaboration between Sonia and Big Fun (featuring Gary Barnacle on saxophone) for UK charity Childline. With help from Matt Aitken, we discuss the record and why the original track was chosen over a cover of the Carole King song of the same name, which the pop stars also recorded.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

As great a song as it is, "Better The Devil You Know" would not have been anywhere near as impactful as it was without its accompanying music video. A landmark in Kylie Minogue's career, the video transformed her image from that of girl-next-door to "sex kitten", according to director Paul Goldman, who joins us to detail the before, during and aftermath of the shoot, including his run-ins with PWL over the direction it took. Stylist Nicole Bonython-Hines recalls piecing together the various looks for the video and manager Terry Blamey gives his thoughts on why the video was so important for Kylie. We also hear from Sharon McPhilemy and David Howells from PWL about the reaction from Kylie's UK label to the new-look star. Then, Kylie's long-time musical director, Steve Anderson, talks us through their enduring relationship with the song and how it has been reinterpreted on tour over the decades.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

After two very successful albums at PWL, but little in the way of artistic control, Kylie Minogue was ready for a change. And in this first part of a two-part special looking at landmark release "Better The Devil You Know", we hear from those closest to her about the strategy taken to compel Stock Aitken Waterman to agree to a more collaborative approach. From directly influencing the style of tracks — edgier, clubbier — to veto power on the final mixes, Kylie gained input to an extent way beyond any other Hit Factory artist. In turn, SAW delivered what is widely regarded as one of their all-time best tracks. The lead single from eventual third studio album Rhythm Of Love, "Better The Devil You Know" was SAW tapping back into their club roots, but in a way that was still pure pop. And while the song has gone down as a landmark release in Kylie's career, not everyone was thrilled with the way the working relationship or the musical output was developing. In Part 2 (coming soon), we'll focus on the game-changing music video. Interviews in Part 1: Mike Stock, Matt Aitken, Yoyo, Pete Hammond, Julian Gingell, Miriam Stockley, Karen Hewitt and one more very special guest connected to Kylie, who features on the podcast for the first time.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

His journey with Stock Aitken Waterman was one of the most successful, with multiple UK number 1 hits and the highest-selling album in Britain in 1989. And now, Jason Donovan joins the podcast to talk about his time at the Hit Factory. From his first steps into the music industry with Mushroom Records in Australia to his early sessions with Pete Hammond and then Mike Stock and Matt Aitken to that blistering run of singles in 1988 and 1989, Jason speaks honestly about what the experience was like for him and the artistic restrictions and business decisions at play during his debut album era. Then, we move into 1990 and his first single for the new decade, "Hang On To Your Love", and the Between The Lines album, with Jason talking about the musical direction taken, how he felt more comfortable vocally and the changes that were going on around him on the charts.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

Her time at PWL might not have yielded any hits, but the short-lived pop career of Japanese singer Kakko is the stuff of legend. We take a deep dive into the story behind her debut single, "We Should Be Dancing”, hearing from PWL’s David Howells and Nicki L’Amy Brée about how the aspiring performer learnt the ropes at the label before being sent into the studio with both Mike Stock and Matt Aitken, and Phil Harding and Ian Curnow, all of whom also recall the project. After an aborted first attempt with a song called "Stop The Clock”, Stock and Aitken settled on “We Should Be Dancing”, which is one of the most polarising SAW singles of all time. While Kakko didn’t trouble the UK chart, the latest releases from Big Fun, Sonia and Pat & Mick kept the Hit Factory in the top 40, although not always at positions the artists had become accustomed to. As musical trends changed dramatically in 1990, we hear from engineer Peter Day about SAW’s latest trick to keep their tracks club-friendly: the ubiquitous “woo! yeah!” sample, which featured on both Big Fun’s “Handful Of Promises” and “Counting Every Minute” by Sonia. Pat Sharp and Mick Brown also join us again to reflect on the unexpected achievements of their remake of “Use It Up And Wear It Out”.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

New year. New artist. New hit. Stock Aitken Waterman's hit streak continued in 1990 with the breakthrough single for American club artist Lonnie Gordon, who had relocated to the UK in the 1980s and made a name for herself with a series of personality-filled anthems like "No Regrets", "Love Eviction", "(I've Got Your) Pleasure Control" and "It's Not Over". We hear from Lonnie about those early records — and their spoken sections — and how she targeted SAW as the producers she wanted to take her to the next level. After signing a deal with Supreme Records, home of Mel & Kim and Princess, Lonnie found herself working with PWL soon enough, with the Black Box-inspired "Happenin' All Over Again" the vehicle to take her to a more mainstream audience. Lonnie recalls the experience of working with Mike Stock and Matt Aitken on the UK top 5 track, while Mike, PWL's Julian Gingell and Supreme Records' Nick East all give their memories of the redoubtable singer.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com

Any fears that the public had tired of Stock Aitken Waterman were dismissed as 1990 got underway and the latest single by Kylie Minogue became the next UK chart-topper for the trio. Taken from the soundtrack to her feature film debut in The Delinquents, Kylie's remake of 1950s classic "Tears On My Pillow" got the new decade off to a great start in terms of UK chart success, although the single was not as embraced in Australia, where it became her lowest-charting hit to date. As well as looking at the cover version, we talk about the film it was released to support and the controversy at the time about the more grown-up content in The Delinquents. We also hear from Kylie's Australian-based stylist Nicole Bonython-Hines about the star's iconic look for the film's Sydney premiere. Then, we welcome Mike Stock back to the podcast for a special chat about B-sides in general and, specifically, "We Know The Meaning Of Love", the track which appeared on the flip side of "Tears On My Pillow" and just may have been considered as a duet at one point.Support the showSubscribe for bonus material at chartbeats.com.au/sawTwitter: @ChartBeatsAU, @MrMattDenbyInstagram: @chartbeatsauFacebook: Chart Beats: A Journey Through PopEmail: chartbeats.au@gmail.com